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ploeg Willem II

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    ploeg Willem II

    de ploeg Willem II (met o.a. Van Looy) reed in de Giro van 1967 en de Ronde van Zwitserland met een trui van Cynar.
    weet iemand welke kleur die trui had ? blauw volgens sommigen; rood volgens anderen.

    #2
    In de TDS reed Willem II in de gewone Willem II truien. Het bewijs vind je hier

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDgusx1RweU

    Volgens mijn info zou de Cynar trui in de Giro blauw zijn geweest, maar ik kan geen bewijs leveren

    Opmerking


      #3
      Hierbij ook een link naar de deelnemerslijst van de TDS

      http://krantenarchief.concentra.be/v...ynar&lm2=Cynar

      Opmerking


        #4
        inderdaad, dus Ronde van Zwitserland moeten wij uitsluiten. Willem II was aan de start zowel als Cynar. dus geen Cynarploeg voor Willem II. blijft de Giro.

        Opmerking


          #5
          Hello Jan,

          I don't speak flemish and that's why I'm posting in english.

          In 1967, the Willem II/Gazelle riders have been wearing a blue jersey with CYNAR / WILLEM II as title sponsors.
          This is 100% sure because a friend of mine, following cycling for decades until today, has sent to me a design of the jersey.

          Regards.
          Manuel

          Opmerking


            #6
            Manuel

            I hope you are not implying that the team had a jersey with both Willem II and Cynar as sponsors on it, because that would have been 100% wrong.

            Willem II was the regular sponsor, but was replaced by Cynar in the Giro only, causing by the way some controversy. We are trying to find confirmation of its color, never having seen a color picture of this jersey nor any mention of its color in a newspaper or magazine of the time.

            So if I understand correctly you are saying that Giro jersey was blue just as well as the regular one?
            Laatst bewerkt door patfey; 15.12.2018, 17:34.
            Patrick

            Opmerking


              #7
              Manuel
              if the jersey you mentioned is designed and not real, I must make restriction. it probably is a jersey I myself have designed in blue colour, some years ago. now I begin to doubt, was it really blue (probably) or red ? I haven't seen a colour photograph of the jersey since.

              Opmerking


                #8
                Hello,

                I must tell you that my friend designs the team jerseys based on rider's personal photos.

                If you don't accept my information it's your problem because he's an undoubtfully correct source.
                He is travelling in Europe for more than 40 years meeting the "peloton" everywhere.

                I feel myself a person not welcome in this forum.

                Regards.

                Manuel

                Opmerking


                  #9
                  Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Azevedo Bericht weergeven
                  Hello,

                  I must tell you that my friend designs the team jerseys based on rider's personal photos.

                  If you don't accept my information it's your problem because he's an undoubtfully correct source.
                  He is travelling in Europe for more than 40 years meeting the "peloton" everywhere.

                  I feel myself a person not welcome in this forum.

                  Regards.

                  Manuel
                  Manuel

                  I regret, but I fin this a very poor reaction. You feel yourself not welcome because somebody dares to question the source of your information? This is a forum for collectors and archivists. The first rule to do a good job in compiling information is to question and verify all your sources.
                  If your friend says he has seen the actual jersey or a color picture of the jersey, I am willing to believe him. If it is a black and white picture, not good enough. If it is based upon the recollection of a rider, not good enough, I know from experience they have a very bad memory on issues like that.
                  Your friend travels for more than 40 years a in Europe? Great, but that’s still several years after that jersey. So yes, to have a clear idea on what that jersey looks, we need firm evidence, what’s wrong with that?
                  For me, you were always more than welcome here, but I am sadly surprised by your reaction.
                  Patrick

                  Opmerking


                    #10
                    Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Azevedo Bericht weergeven
                    Hello,

                    I must tell you that my friend designs the team jerseys based on rider's personal photos.

                    If you don't accept my information it's your problem because he's an undoubtfully correct source.
                    He is travelling in Europe for more than 40 years meeting the "peloton" everywhere.

                    I feel myself a person not welcome in this forum.

                    Regards.

                    Manuel
                    Hello Manuel,

                    You are more than welcome on this forum, but all members of the forum must accept in principle that it is not enough to simply assert that something is the case eg that a specific jersey was blue, there must also be evidence which supports the claim that the jersey was blue, that is surely not too much to expect?

                    Sometimes this will be difficult, sometimes impossible, but all Patfey, Jan Soens and others are asking is that if you have a reliable source eg riders' fotos in colour, show us the evidence.

                    Riders' memories, as Patfey has noted, are often notoriously unreliable, they often get really simple things wrong, but that is forgivable, after all, these things happened decades ago, but that is why we must be cautious in treating their recollections as fact.

                    I hope that you continue to contribute to this forum because every serious contribution adds to our knowledge of the sport, and thereby increases the reputation of the forum as a go-to source for information on the history of the sport.

                    Best regards,

                    Steponas

                    Opmerking


                      #11
                      Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Steponas Bericht weergeven
                      Riders' memories, as Patfey has noted, are often notoriously unreliable, they often get really simple things wrong, but that is forgivable, after all, these things happened decades ago, but that is why we must be cautious in treating their recollections as fact.
                      Actually, instead of “forgivable” I would say “fully understandable”. Do you remember the color and the style of the suits you wore ten (or twenty, or fourty) years ago to work? In fact, the memory of the spouses who washed those jerseys, might even be more reliable.
                      I remember when Jan interviewed Staf De Smet asking if there ever was a black Groene Leeuw jersey (you know, like in these 1965 Maple Leaf chromos). He did not really know, she was certain : never.
                      Patrick

                      Opmerking


                        #12
                        Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door patfey Bericht weergeven
                        Actually, instead of “forgivable” I would say “fully understandable”. Do you remember the color and the style of the suits you wore ten (or twenty, or fourty) years ago to work? In fact, the memory of the spouses who washed those jerseys, might even be more reliable.
                        I remember when Jan interviewed Staf De Smet asking if there ever was a black Groene Leeuw jersey (you know, like in these 1965 Maple Leaf chromos). He did not really know, she was certain : never.
                        Very true, as to riders and their memories, I spoke to Stan Brittain a couple of years ago and asked him about one of his Peace Race rivals, Viktor Kapitonov, Stan didn't even recall the name Kapitonov, never mind being able to tell me anything about him.

                        Opmerking


                          #13
                          I fully agree with Patfey and Steponas.

                          The best which can happen is that Manuel's friend has a colour picture of the jersey (and not a picture which is coloured afterwards which exist also).

                          So Manuel, you are still welcome on this forum.


                          Jan

                          Opmerking


                            #14
                            yes Manuel, still welcome.
                            I had not the intention of doubting your friends opinion, but I would like to see the jersey itself in a coloured photograph.
                            so we would solve a problem that exists.

                            Opmerking

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