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Oud 5 december 2018, 15:17   #1
Jan Soens
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Standaard ploeg Willem II

de ploeg Willem II (met o.a. Van Looy) reed in de Giro van 1967 en de Ronde van Zwitserland met een trui van Cynar.
weet iemand welke kleur die trui had ? blauw volgens sommigen; rood volgens anderen.
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Oud 5 december 2018, 19:35   #2
Tourfanaat
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In de TDS reed Willem II in de gewone Willem II truien. Het bewijs vind je hier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDgusx1RweU

Volgens mijn info zou de Cynar trui in de Giro blauw zijn geweest, maar ik kan geen bewijs leveren
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Oud 5 december 2018, 20:01   #3
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Hierbij ook een link naar de deelnemerslijst van de TDS

http://krantenarchief.concentra.be/v...ynar&lm2=Cynar
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Oud 7 december 2018, 11:57   #4
Jan Soens
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inderdaad, dus Ronde van Zwitserland moeten wij uitsluiten. Willem II was aan de start zowel als Cynar. dus geen Cynarploeg voor Willem II. blijft de Giro.
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Oud 13 december 2018, 20:14   #5
Azevedo
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Hello Jan,

I don't speak flemish and that's why I'm posting in english.

In 1967, the Willem II/Gazelle riders have been wearing a blue jersey with CYNAR / WILLEM II as title sponsors.
This is 100% sure because a friend of mine, following cycling for decades until today, has sent to me a design of the jersey.

Regards.
Manuel
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Oud 13 december 2018, 21:29   #6
patfey
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Manuel

I hope you are not implying that the team had a jersey with both Willem II and Cynar as sponsors on it, because that would have been 100% wrong.

Willem II was the regular sponsor, but was replaced by Cynar in the Giro only, causing by the way some controversy. We are trying to find confirmation of its color, never having seen a color picture of this jersey nor any mention of its color in a newspaper or magazine of the time.

So if I understand correctly you are saying that Giro jersey was blue just as well as the regular one?
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Laatst gewijzigd door patfey; 15 december 2018 om 18:34
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Oud 14 december 2018, 12:12   #7
Jan Soens
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Manuel
if the jersey you mentioned is designed and not real, I must make restriction. it probably is a jersey I myself have designed in blue colour, some years ago. now I begin to doubt, was it really blue (probably) or red ? I haven't seen a colour photograph of the jersey since.
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Oud 14 december 2018, 20:43   #8
Azevedo
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Hello,

I must tell you that my friend designs the team jerseys based on rider's personal photos.

If you don't accept my information it's your problem because he's an undoubtfully correct source.
He is travelling in Europe for more than 40 years meeting the "peloton" everywhere.

I feel myself a person not welcome in this forum.

Regards.

Manuel
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Oud 15 december 2018, 18:34   #9
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Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Azevedo Bekijk bericht
Hello,

I must tell you that my friend designs the team jerseys based on rider's personal photos.

If you don't accept my information it's your problem because he's an undoubtfully correct source.
He is travelling in Europe for more than 40 years meeting the "peloton" everywhere.

I feel myself a person not welcome in this forum.

Regards.

Manuel
Manuel

I regret, but I fin this a very poor reaction. You feel yourself not welcome because somebody dares to question the source of your information? This is a forum for collectors and archivists. The first rule to do a good job in compiling information is to question and verify all your sources.
If your friend says he has seen the actual jersey or a color picture of the jersey, I am willing to believe him. If it is a black and white picture, not good enough. If it is based upon the recollection of a rider, not good enough, I know from experience they have a very bad memory on issues like that.
Your friend travels for more than 40 years a in Europe? Great, but that’s still several years after that jersey. So yes, to have a clear idea on what that jersey looks, we need firm evidence, what’s wrong with that?
For me, you were always more than welcome here, but I am sadly surprised by your reaction.
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Oud 15 december 2018, 20:49   #10
Steponas
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Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Azevedo Bekijk bericht
Hello,

I must tell you that my friend designs the team jerseys based on rider's personal photos.

If you don't accept my information it's your problem because he's an undoubtfully correct source.
He is travelling in Europe for more than 40 years meeting the "peloton" everywhere.

I feel myself a person not welcome in this forum.

Regards.

Manuel
Hello Manuel,

You are more than welcome on this forum, but all members of the forum must accept in principle that it is not enough to simply assert that something is the case eg that a specific jersey was blue, there must also be evidence which supports the claim that the jersey was blue, that is surely not too much to expect?

Sometimes this will be difficult, sometimes impossible, but all Patfey, Jan Soens and others are asking is that if you have a reliable source eg riders' fotos in colour, show us the evidence.

Riders' memories, as Patfey has noted, are often notoriously unreliable, they often get really simple things wrong, but that is forgivable, after all, these things happened decades ago, but that is why we must be cautious in treating their recollections as fact.

I hope that you continue to contribute to this forum because every serious contribution adds to our knowledge of the sport, and thereby increases the reputation of the forum as a go-to source for information on the history of the sport.

Best regards,

Steponas
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